School Without Suffering

Laura: My guest today is Avery Wooldridge. Avery, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. We're so excited to have you.

Avery: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here and talk about kind of all this stuff.

Laura: Yes. Okay. So before we jump into it, can you introduce yourself to the listeners.

Avery: Well, I am Avery. And that is also my podcast I am Avery. And I talked about on my podcast is about mental health and everything that has to do with it, which is practically everything in life, honestly. And I love sharing my story to help others, I volunteer with American foundation of suicide prevention. And that's what I'm looking into going into for career.

Laura: That's amazing. And every How old are you? I'm 1616 and are already diving headfirst into mental health. What you know is important what you think you want to do for your career in the field. That's incredible. And I think very, unfortunately, rare. Very for people your age to to have that level of awareness of how important mental health is.

Avery: Oh, yes, it's, it's, again, like me living in that age to seeing my peers and stuff. It really is disappointing. But that's my goal in life. And actually, like, just right now and my age is to help spread awareness and help open the eyes of those people who don't get it or just are not very, like, they don't have a mind open to it. They're very closed off and what they think, yes, what it is, and it's not. That's it. There's so many broad ideas.

Laura: Yeah. Okay, so let's start at the beginning. So we got connected in a Facebook group where I put out a call for folks who have had experiences suffering in school, however you define it, and folks who would like to share that story, and you raise your hand. So I want to give you the chance to tell that story. First and foremost.

Avery: Sounds good. I mean, there's I can just for an overview, right now, I've suffered from bullying, school avoidance and refusal. I'm neurodivergent disorders, anxiety, and I do have something called pots and EDS. So EDS is or Los danlos. It's practically I'm too flexible that it makes me sick and pots is my heart rate declines very quickly, no matter what I'm doing. Um, so I mean, I think the neurodivergent see came first in my life and my school life at age with I think I got diagnosed with ADHD at age five, or six, and I got put right on medication. At that time I did, I was introduced, I went to a bilingual school. And unfortunately, I ate at first grade, I decided I couldn't do it, I had to switch out because my, my brain couldn't process it, learning and trying a new language. And I think that what started me to being in a big group of girls friends, and I don't say that it's a bad thing for everyone. But me personally, that wasn't that ended up not being good. But it made me very anxious, self conscious, just a lot of reasons left out, even though if I wasn't being left out. And that started disordered anxiety started coming into the picture. As I switched schools, I didn't know how to read English. I had to learn how to read English I had to connect with all these new people. And I think I had suffered my mom's my papa died at around age six as well. And that that was the start of the anxiety. And it it it was bad. It was all these things in my mind. Like what what if this happens? What if that what if that and it it ended up? School refusal ended up starting to happen because I couldn't deal with it. Like I just had this pit in my stomach all the time or a stomach ache. It was a stomach ache and that was mostly what I suffered from my mom, I have a stomachache, Dad, I've stomachache, nurse I want to go home I had a stomachache and we found that out to be anxiety, then COVID hid in seventh grade COVID I was in middle of seventh grade when that happened. I lost my friends. I suffered, I got diagnosed with depression in eighth grade, which that led to more school refusal, of course, he was still COVID there was still that COVID going on. But that was as my refusal was still very there. Um, I lost them, I was made fun of for being an attention seeker because I was open about my mental health. And so I've always been open about it, because I'm just that person, I've always been told I have my heart on my sleeve. And I'm an old soul. And I didn't know how to deal with that. Being told that and like no one believing me, um, and that again, cause way more school refusal. Like fast forward a bit to more of high school. So I go to a trade school, which has almost close to 1000 people. So compared to the regular Town High School that has 5000 Kids, I'm up to almost close to 1000 kids in my school. So I do trade that's helped. So much. I love doing it. I love not doing school, like academic all year long. And I think for ADHD, like me, I need it. 

Laura: One thing I want to say is that you are so vibrant. And you're sitting here and you're smiling. And you're like, articulating your story beautifully. You somebody who's just watching this is probably not looking at you and thinking, oh, yeah, that's an anxious and depressed kid. 

Avery: Yes, thank you so much, that actually makes me so happy to hear. That's what I try to do on a day to day basis. Even if I'm having a bad day, I try to keep a smile on. It's actually one of something I do in DBT dialectical behavior therapy. I don't want to go into the explaining. But if someone wants to look it up, or if you know, I work on changing my thoughts, and it's something it's called a half smile. And even if you're not feeling good, it's a half smile, and it tricks your body into thinking you're okay. I mean, today, I'm having an awesome day. I mean, I've been doing good. But there are some days where like, I'm still smiling, and people don't see me as you don't have depression, you're always smiling. You're always laughing. I'm like, have somebody come see me when I'm at my home?

Laura: Yeah, I think it's really important to call that out to say, like, you don't always know when somebody is anxious or depressed or struggling with their mental health, people can look all sorts of ways and like you really are, your depression wasn't of the type that was keeping you from getting out of bed, or traveling or doing a lot of the things that maybe people think tend to think of, or other people struggle with, or other people struggle with. Yes. So I want to bring this up, because the folks who are listening are tend to be a lot of parents. And it can be, it can sometimes be hard to understand or like to see your child you maybe think like, Yeah, I'm seeing your grades aren't great. And I don't know what's going on. So it must be your motor, you're just not motivated, or you just don't know.

Avery: Or you're lazy or you don't you don't have a future in mind for you.

Laura: Right, exactly. And so we always try to try to bring that into the conversation. Oh, there is always more going on under the surface than we can see an in anybody. So when you all this started, five or six years old, and really it sounds like it happened in your first grade classroom at the bilingual school and then ramped up when you change schools? Yes, I know, you were very young. But do you know the sorts of things your mom was seeing from you? And from you?

Avery: So my mom was actually a special educator. Um, so she actually works in this field of working with students who go through this stuff and have on you know, these struggles and these educational struggles just I don't know how to explain it, but I knew all these struggles. Um, but I think she noticed, just again, like, how downhearted I was how hard it was for me to do certain things and how, how I viewed myself, honestly, um, and I think from there, she it's also easier for her because not it doesn't make it easier, but she knows more of the signs being a special educator. So I think that's what helped her and I know not all parents have those have that, that view into it. And they have nowhere to start. But I think she noticed that and she looked into it more from what she knew.

Laura: Yeah, that's why we're talking about this so that those who don't have a special Yeah, can you can get some insight into what to see what to look for. So, um, you talked about you got a 504 plan? Yes. Can you explain what a 504 plan is and what you're doing.

Avery: So my 504, the 504 plan is practically a plan that helps you and school and for me personally, that was just little, little tiny little things that could make learning in my school life way better. For example, I got any teacher could give these to their students, more examples, and more and more like, like a piece of paper that showed more examples or more explaining, but for me, personally, I, I was handed that no matter what I was handed, here's more some examples. If you need some help feel free, like I met with certain teachers to help and talk about it. And because you have to file for an IEP plan does not mean you're stupid, or you're spared, as people like to say, it just means you need a little more help your brain is a little different. And that doesn't mean there's anything wrong, but it just you learn differently.

Laura: Once you got your 504? Did Did that help you? Did you? Did you feel differently in school?

Avery: Yes. I felt like I had more support. And that some teachers could finally understand what was happening. Because I felt like some teachers just didn't understand it and didn't understand why I was struggling. And it made me feel really again, insecure. Like why am I so different from these other kids? But I think it majorly helped me like I think it was a whole new world even though it was small changes here and there.

Laura: Yeah, so small changes that the teachers were doing led to you feeling more secure, more safe, more supported. Yeah, that is what kind of let you have a like you said it felt like a whole new world even though maybe it wasn't a whole new Yeah, in the same classroom. You had the same teacher? They were doing same pairs. Yeah, the same peers. You were doing the same work. You just got, you know, a little bit more examples on a piece of paper. Yeah, like you said that that is something that can be done for anybody when I was in my teacher training. I remember learning for the first time about accommodations, as we call these things, and thinking to myself, well, why wouldn't I just do this forever?

Avery: Yeah, and that's why I said that because the teachers as much they will give examples to anyone who asked but for me personally, I was already handed it without asking. Right um, And shown it without needing to ask because that's another thing that I think a lot of kids struggle with is the asking for help. And asking for more support as that young lady. 

Laura: Yeah, at that young age, and especially if you're already feeling insecure and already feeling anxious, that's going to be hard. That's a really big ask. Yeah. Probably unreasonable.

Avery: In your mind, in your mind, yeah.

Laura: To say, well just ask for help. That's not not simple as that simple. Great. Yeah. And so there are ways like you said that you don't have to ask for help that can be laid out. These are the things that Avery needs that, you know, child ABC needs, they're gonna get them right away without having that. Yeah.

Avery: And yes, and it's illegal, the teacher legally has to follow that on. And there could be consequences if they don't. But I think again, again, for like, I don't want to say normal parent. But for a parent who doesn't have that, the eyes into a special ed, it's hard to also ask for help. Also to ask yourself and your child for help. Because you also don't want to be seen. It doesn't mean you're bad. A pet parent, you just also don't want to get like from other parents, you don't want to see it, you don't want it to look bad. And again, my mom had to look into it. She knew exactly what to ask for. She knew exactly what I needed, what to ask for. And the point she still does when we do my IEP meetings, and I love that, like I'm very, I'm very lucky to have that. But it doesn't mean she's a better parent than the year you being a parent. It just means that it was better noticed at my start at a younger younger age. She had the information.

Laura: Yes, he was professionally trained to have the information. Yeah. Oh, yes. So okay, so then in elementary school, you had your 504. When did you move on to an IEP?

Avery: I think in eighth grade after I was, I don't even know maybe like seventh or eighth grade. 

Laura: Around the time of COVID lockdowns.

Avery: When I started when the depression I've always had depression symptoms in the start of sixth grade, especially with the house fire. But I think after I, I said something that was very suicidal, it was like a big glare warning sign that I needed more help. Because the school it was school, the main school, that was the main issue, School of going to school, interacting with my peers who saw me in a different light. And I'm I'm seen as loud and annoying. And from other people, I don't see myself as that I think I'm awesome. But other people see me as loud, annoying, I talk too much. But I think I have so many ideas in my brain that I want to go. And I can see ads, it's annoying, but like that was my struggle is people just saw me in a different light. And I was people didn't like me. And that's why I needed more, more things to come in to helping me. And I don't think it wasn't that big of a jump from the file before to the IEP. But, again, the file before to the IEP gave me more accommodations than I already had. Again, that made a big difference, especially going into high school.

Laura: Yes. And so what did you gain from your IEP that you didn't have on your five before that you may be found to be the most supportive?

Avery: Yes, um, I think what I think in eighth grade, there wasn't any really change from the five before to the IEP. But jumping into high school that was it was way the IEP was way better than the five before jumping into high school. In high school, I do get a something called learning strategies. And most freshmen, it depends what school you go to, since I go to a trade school, you do not get a free period. That's not in your regular academic schedule. So for me, this is like a free period. And I have I am in a classroom with a teacher who has a special education background, who is a special educator, and I'm in this classroom with other kids who suffer from these from all these things and have IEPs and it's a class to get your work done and get help. And that was the major thing that was really good for me still, I love it. It's it's awesome. And I find myself not having work to do because I get to do this and it helps the stress. And that's the major that was the major jump, I think. But I just think again, there was just more things like for example, the five four I just want more examples. Now this I get more examples and more discussions and more on data. They they help more I don't know how to explain it, but like there's just more they do their regular classroom. They teach what you're supposed to do, but then they come to me if and now since I'm older, they will not really they include more stuff, but they will not do more unless I am like hey, can you help me? And I think I'm better at doing When not now, that was a struggle and like freshman year, I would not ask for help. Um, but they will, they will answer more of my questions than a regular student. So, so more of Deep Dive.

Laura: Yeah. So you're getting the one on one support that you need the check ins that you need. And it's been noticed by your educators that you are maturing, you are getting to a place where you can ask for help more. And so they are now giving you that responsibility and giving you that opportunity to practice that skill, which is important, important skill.

Avery: Oh, yeah. Especially even going into adult life.

Laura: So I want to take this opportunity to address something you said earlier, which is that you were bullied? Partially because the people around you were seeing the things you were talking about the things you were doing as attention seeking? Oh, yes. Why do you think that that perception of somebody seeking attention? elicits that response?

Avery: Kids just didn't know. Like, they don't know what happens. And what this is. And what that is all they know is that maybe their parents or they were taught that this stuff has to be silenced. And this stuff is not something you talk about. Um, and that's the stigma. That's the, that's the stigma coming in. And I'm not saying that person's a bad person for doing that. I mean, once it gets to a certain point of bullying and stuff, it it's not okay. But I can see where some people come from because they were taught that this is not something you talk about this is not something that's okay to talk about. And because I talked about it, I was looking for attention.

Laura: You know, I hear in your words like compassion for your bullies. Yeah, an understanding of like, you were told this is bad, and so reacted in a way that was bad. Yes, I also heard you say that sometimes people believe for attention. And I think that I mean, in You listed a whole bunch of other behaviors that people can do for attention. And there's something about me, kids needing attention, people needing attention, we, we in fact, do need attention. We are social beings, we need love, we need to feel supported, we need to feel supported in the ways that not just money and vignette for other people, but that feel like they are actually helping us. Yes. And culturally, we have gotten to a place where somehow that's not okay. And so. And that's deeply ingrained. In most, if not all of us that are that are at least in American society. I won't speak for the whole world. But this is something that I think I think I see, I think you see it, I think a lot of people see it. And it's so normal. It's such a normal response. Even for like when a when a child is in class and the teacher might say, Oh, they're doing that for attention. Or they or even a parent might say, Oh, they're doing that for attention.

Avery: And deeper. You've got to look deeper into why they're doing that for attention. 

Laura: Exactly. Because we leave it at that and we have this this message in our heads that we're kind of programmed with that like oh, the Not means it's superficial. And that means it's not real and they just want attention. I don't think that we think deeper about what is not mean that they are looking for attention. And yeah, now you're both working to help people who have gotten to a place of feeling like they maybe don't even want to be here anymore, because of the way that they feel in the world. And I know the number of teenagers that feel this way is going up and up and up. It's in the news, it's undeniable. And you're telling me that your school does not have any support for it. And your school is not alone in not having any support? Yeah. So if you're not able to get the support you need, or were not able to get the support you need if you needed it from school. Is that what led you to refusing to go?

Avery: Yes, I felt as sorry, I felt as if I was not being seen, and that my problems were not important. Of course, it died that doesn't speak for my parents. Um, I love them. They I again, I'm very lucky for how how they are and how I get support from them. But I mean, you're in school most of your life, not most of your life, but for depending if you go to college for like 18 to 25 years of your life. You're in school and every single A day for six hours a day. And I think at those for those first years of life, that's you're at school more than you're at your home. So like as much as I was getting support at home, school was the main problem. And that became that I didn't want to go to school because I wasn't getting supported there. But I knew my home was my safe place. And I knew I'd get support at home. Mm hmm.

Laura: For anyone who's listening, any parents who are listening who have a child that is refusing to go to school, can you? Not that one child is the same as another just like, yeah, don't see me as another but just yeah, maybe share a little of what your thoughts were and what your feelings were during your times of school refusal, just to help like, shed some light? Yeah, it's definitely a gears turning.

Avery: Yeah, of course. Um, I think I can't remember the youngest ages of how I felt all I didn't, it wasn't really seen as anxiety at that point, because I wasn't diagnosed. But I think, um, I don't know, they saw it as anxiety. I think I didn't realize it, but I think I was just so there was just a pit in my stomach like that I didn't want to be at school because this happened, or someone looked at me a certain way or said this, and I don't I'm again, like you said, I'm not speaking for all parents, but I think a lot of parents don't understand, some of them don't understand how it feels. Um, and again, like, it's been a long time where mental health span in the picture. And even years ago, it was more, it was way worse than what we're getting, we're at now. Like the silence and stuff. So again, lots of parents were raised differently and seeing that, and that's how they raise their kids. I'm not saying that's wrong, you raise your kids however you want. But when it gets to a certain point where they don't know anything, and they need help, and you don't know what to do that shows that like, you can, it doesn't mean you're a bad parent, but you can become a better parent. And if you see these signs in your kids, I think, I think it's also you need to go to it's a legally you have to you have to go to school, and I think, um, as much as you want your kid to be like, you want to be like you have to go to school like this is important. This is the point you kind of do have to look at the whole picture, and to why your kid might be feeling this way. Even thinking about what you could be doing wrong. Not again, as I said so many times it doesn't mean you're doing something wrong. But looking into that maybe into that and thinking what could I be doing wrong? What what, what have they brought up as a flag that maybe I didn't see like what could be going on and looking at the whole picture as to, they just don't, as not not seeing it as they're being lazy and they just don't want to go to school do work. But seeing it as like, what could be the problem, what could be causing this and supporting your child and this doesn't. Supporting your child doesn't mean letting them stay out of school, but letting them know that they have support and that they can talk to you. And you helping them have a better school life and maybe home life that's even needed.

Laura: Yeah. So when you were in we can think about even like, read most recently, like yeah, um, were there days that you were expressing to your parents, I'm not going to school and you were allowed to stay home and versus days where you were expressing to your parents. I'm not going to school. And they, in fact said yes, you are.

Avery: So I can I can verse that with both parents. My dad, he's a good he's a teddy bear. But the way he was raised was way different from the way my mom was raised. He's more the guy you're going to school. Like, you have to go to school. My mom's more of the she's a special educator, like, what's wrong? Like, why don't you want to? And again, it's not like she totally lets me stay home all the time. But it's like, what can I do and what what makes better sense you staying home or going to school? What works for your mental health? My dad again, I love them. He's a big teddy bear. But the way he was raised is still implanted in him doesn't mean he's a bad dad or is not good at all this stuff, but it's hard for him to see that in a different light and understand it. So I think it got to the point where I was crying my eyes out like with this current 42 absences last school year, I think it was to the point where like, I didn't feel safe going to school. Because I felt that if something happened, I wouldn't be supported.

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School Without Suffering’s  virtual school serves students from elementary through high school, offering developmentally appropriate, comprehensive curriculum that aligns with academic standards while nurturing individual passions and strengths. During each step of their academic journey, we help students master their mindset and their lessons, cultivate compassion for themselves and others, develop their values, and acquire the skills they need to thrive. Our expert teachers employ innovative teaching methods and technology to create an engaging and interactive learning experience for every student.

Enrollment in the School Without Suffering virtual school is month-to-month, allowing for maximum flexibility in meeting your child’s unique needs. And with tuition in line with the national average for private schools and a pay-what-you-can option for those who need it, this life-changing educational opportunity is within reach for your family.

Download your free parent guide at www.schoolwithoutsuffering.com/guide. That’s www.schoolwithoutsuffering.com/guide.

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Laura: How are we now in 11th grade? And how are we safer? We feel like they're No.

Avery: Good. I have one absence. And that was because with all my issues with my pots and my EDS disease, it's it's hard. And I've been pushing through each day, it's only been three weeks. But I love it. I think I've been this week was a really good week, that week before was two and the first week of school was really good. And I just, I hope it it goes good. It keeps going good. From there, there will be some bad times I know it you can't just assume. But for now, I I do not have the thought of my brand that I'm going to get up to 42 absences again.

Laura: I mean, congratulations. Three months until when accidents you have multiple chronic diseases like, Yes, that's very, I think it's really commendable. And I'm really curious, clearly, if you're going to school every day, yeah, just feel safe there.

Avery: I just think I'm safe within myself. And I know what to do. If something ever occurred, and I just feel like I keep to myself, I don't care that I don't have all these friends. And then I'm going to be leaving high school and it's a whole new world from there. So I think just I still talk to people and stuff, but I kind of keep to myself more. Doesn't mean I'm less quiet and stuff, but I just I don't know, I'm just I know I'm okay.

Laura: I think you have maybe set firmer boundaries. So you can go to school. And you can interact with the people there. But you're aware of what you can rely on them for and what you can't. And also, you're, you're in a place where they can say what they're going to say to you, and you can listen to what you want to and you can leave. What doesn't serve you?

Avery: Yes. I think, go ahead.

Laura: That's a really hard thing for people to learn how to do.

Avery: Yes, and thank you. Um, again, as I like to say, like, my experience is not as the same as others. And as I like to say, in my podcast, too, that I always say that, like, my experience, I'm not putting it as other people have to follow it and stuff. It can take way into your adult life to end up being okay. But I think, again, it's different for everyone. But I'm just really happy where with what I'm at.

Laura: So when you are a teacher, and you have your own classroom, and you are talking to kids, even these little kids early childhood, three, two years old, four years old. Wow. What are you going to want to express to them?

Avery: That no matter what, and it's hard to like, change the words until like, kid, Kid wise. You don't? It's just looking really hard topics that no matter what they are loved, they are worth it. They have a purpose in life and that they shine brightly no matter what they do. And that doesn't matter what other people think. That's my main thing.

Laura: Avery, tell us again, the name of your podcast.

Avery: I am Avery. And where you can look it on pod Spotify for podcasters, regular Spotify and YouTube

Laura: Is there anything that you haven't gotten to say, in our hour together, that you want to leave listeners with?

Avery: Um, that it doesn't matter what you suffer with, even as if you're as a parent to it doesn't matter what is happening, that you deserve the support, and you deserve everything that life, everything goes that life has to get you give you and that you deserve to be awesome. You deserve to be okay with yourself. You deserve everything. Like I said, you deserve the need to get support and that doesn't make you weak and it doesn't make you a bad person. Yeah, that's kind of my thing.

Laura: Incredible. Thank you, Avery so much for being here.

Avery: Thank you for having me. This is an awesome experience.

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You can find the links to Avery’s podcast in the show notes for this episode.

Next up is my conversation with Darryl W. Thomas, Darrell or Coach D is a former at risk student turned US Marine loving husband and committed father five. Hear a story about how things can turn out for the best, and learn about how Darryl is helping minoritized students win in the face of adversity. We’ll see you in the next episode.