School Without Suffering

Laura:  My guest today is Darryl W. Thomas, Darrell or Coach D is a former at risk student turned US Marine loving husband and committed father five. After his parents divorced when he was a child, Darryl saw his mom fall into addiction without healthy methods of coping with her stress. Then, when he was just a freshman in high school, Darryl lost his father to violence. At fourteen years old, looking at his father’s body, he made a choice that he would break the cycles that had hurt his family and make sure that he and his younger brother would come out with a win. In his work, Darrell serves as a leadership coach, motivational speaker and author. His mission is to serve individuals who are at a disadvantage and are giving ear to their doubts. Individuals who are at the crossroads of despair and destiny, his best selling book today I win when tests go beyond the classroom helps high schoolers get engaged and inspired to win in the classroom and in life. And his newest book, take the owl How to Overcome Discouragement, face adversity and become legendary in your own right is also available to order now on his website, which we will have linked in the show notes, along with his books for early and upper elementary students and even resources for teachers.

Darryl:  Absolutely. Thank you for having me.

Laura: Being so young, and having experiencing a loss happen right in front of you like that. And not even just to feel like it was a loss, but to be like something was taken, somebody was taken from you. Right, as you're starting high school. And when we think of high school, we're thinking of your you're going in to the last years of your childhood, this is really where you're being set up for your adulthood, what you're going to do when you have to take care of yourself. And that's something you have to overcome. How did you go about your life? How do you go to school after that, and continue to care about your grades about what's coming?

Darryl: You know, two things come to mind. Two weeks or two to three weeks before my dad had lost his life. He sat me down and my brother down and he said, I don't know what's going to happen to me. So that was some does. DJ makes you secure your little brother? I mean, we're raised Yes, sir. No, sir. Yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. You just that's your reply. You just keep moving. No questions asked. I couldn't just keep moving. I had to ask them because that caught me off guard. I said that it wouldn't mean if something happens to you, like you know, something that we don't know that's going to happen. He said don't worry about this. And if some happens to me, make sure you take care of your brother Quincy. So, after thinking about it for a moment, I said, Yes, sir, I will. And so that was my word. That was my promise to my dad, I was going to make sure I took care of Quinton, some happened to him. And then the other thing was, I kept thinking about my dad, I would say things like, now I'm doing this and honor my daddy, you know, I got to, I got to excel in school, because I know, that's something that my daddy wanted me to do. You know, he's the one that put me in, like in the advanced, you know, classes and you know, the magnet programs and stuff like that. And I said, I got to do this. And his honor, that's the least I can do is look after Quincy, and then make sure I take care of my school, you know, grades and things like that. And so those are things that really, you know, kept me going. And then also something that my substitute teacher had told me when I was in seventh grade, she had the class take out a fresh sheet of paper, and she said, I want you to write your name and today's date at the top of the paper. She said, Well, those four words you see on the chalkboard, because she wrote four words in the chalkboard, she said, I want you to write those in the top right hand corner of your paper. And those words were I am a winner. And when she had explained it to me in seventh grade, I thought it was corny. I'm not gonna lie to you, Laurie, like, I thought it was corny. I was like, Man, this is not right. You know what I thought about my dad again, like, if I don't write it, my dad's going to, he's gonna be upset with you know, he's gonna let me know how upset he is. So I said, let me go and write this. And she and she began to explain what it meant. And what she said, Laura, she said that I'm a winner simply means no matter what you go through in life, no matter how crazy it is, how unfair how undeserving it may be, she say you do win. As long as you don't quit. quitters never win. And winners never quit. I was slouching back in my chair like this when she was saying it, trying to be cool. You know, but by the time she had finished saying what she was saying, I was sitting up at the very edge of my seat eaten up every single word she was saying. Because in that moment, my life was such in a disarray, going from house to house mom to dad, dad's mom, and seeing what they were doing. I was like, Man, forget this. But she began to give me an answer to the test that I needed, I needed to know that I am a winner and that I can win. And so in that instance, she helped my life was going like this, he helped me to bounce back, right? Just in an instant. The very next day I came into the classroom, I'm looking for the substitute teach. That was the only time I saw her the day before. Never, ever have authority, never ever. But she changed my life for Bert. And, in bottom line, I took out a fresh sheet of paper, I wrote my name, today's date, top right hand corner, I wrote I am a winner. And I did that in every other class for the rest of my seventh grade year, all Java eight right here. So that went from my head to my heart. Now I really believe that I am a winner. I just got to figure out when I get into a tough situation. How do I muster up enough strength, you know, to to just take one step forward? How do I muster up enough courage to not quit to pull the rocky bow boy either you know, I mean, like I get I get debt. But I gotta fight figure out a way to get right back off the canvas. You know, and that's the really was my mindset because of my substitute teacher. So going past my dad's death. Those were things that I was remembering. My promise to take care of Quincy, I was remembering that I want to honor my dad and what I did. And then I also remember that you are a winner. The winners never quit and quitters never win. But once you go into You can't quit. You know, I mean, so yeah, that was that.

Laura: That's an that's incredible. There's a couple things that I want to highlight. One that I hear so You have these three things that were keeping you going a little brother, your dad's memory and this influence that you had from somebody you met once, one time a substitute teacher. Your dad's memory, I just we have a lot of parents who listen to this podcast. And I talk to a lot of parents when working with their kids who are struggling. And there's a lot of, there's a lot of guilt that's felt, and a lot of shame around feeling like they're not doing enough. Or they're doing something, you know, that's harming their kids. And I want to, I want to point out that we're talking about Coach, these dad, who he laid out was not a perfect person, had plenty of things that were done that were hurtful, but also did plenty of things that set you up on a right path, and clearly made you feel loved and cared for enough that you really were listening to what he was saying. And so for any of the parents who are listening to this right now, know that you can be imperfect, and still have a hugely positive influence on your kids success. Absolutely. That's just one thing I wanted to say. Because I think that can be so powerful. The other thing is the substitute teacher, you the other thing is just know that any child that you interact with, at any point, you have the potential to be someone that they will remember forever, even by doing something as small as telling them that they're worth it, that they're worth working for that they're worth trying for.

Darryl: I learned and this is much later in my life, I learned that the things that were happening in my life that when they were not happening to me, but they were happening for me, and that's why I say when I talk about the tricks, sometimes we can just take a step back and say okay, wait a minute, what good come from this negative because there is some positive can come from it. You know, what can I really gain? How can it make me better when we started to look at it from that way In May, from that vantage point, now what happens? We start to take the power back, you know? No, now we're, we're in control at this point. I just got to figure out how do I respond to the circumstances that happen to me versus reacting to something. I feel like it's an uncontrollable. And so I think that that's what I mean, when I say, those are tricks, you know, they were playing tricks on my mind, making me feel as if I'm a victim, and I'm really not a victim. I'm, like, my substitute teacher told me, I'm a winner. I'm a big tour, you know, I got this. I just can't quit. And so that's what I meant by playing tricks.

Laura: Yeah. Yeah. And it's like you can you can acknowledge the injustice is, and say, I'm, I cannot control those things. It sounds like what you did, though, is control how you respond to them. You said, I'm gonna stop reacting and restart responding. In a way that's gonna get me where I want to go. Yeah. You have chosen a profession where you're now coaching leaders. Lots of times school leaders, talking to students writing for students? Why?

Darryl: Yes, that's a great question. I like to say that it's not necessarily that I chose the profession, it chose me. And it's more of a, I mean, we can say profession, it's more of a personal mission. You know, it's a calling, you know, for me were, that night, when I looked over my shoulder, I saw Quincy, I didn't just see Quincy, I didn't just see a reason to make the right move. I found my purpose that night. And my purpose was really to help those who are at risk, you know, of not winning in life, not winning in school, not succeeding, to help them overcome whatever challenges they may be facing, especially the young men. In that moment, I mean, honestly speaking, that's when things really begin to change for me. So although I was trying to make move, there are benefits for me at Quincy, when I realized, as I get into my adult years, I realized that you know, what, there's a lot of other Quincies in this world. And I just feel compelled, you know, to be able to help them. Like, that's my personal mission, although it is my company's mission. It's also a personal mission for me, you know, and so that's why I chose, you know, because I get a bill now, to help those Quincy fair in the world.

Laura: Yeah, I saw on your website that you say you're not convinced or sorry, you are convinced that the world is not short of solutions for the problems that students are facing. Rather, we're sort of leaders who possess the solutions that are needed that those kids need. So as a leadership coach, you're working directly with people who are in charge at schools every day. And I would love to hear what you've seen change through that work. And if you've had the opportunity to see impacts of the changes on the adults, on how the students feel and what they're able to accomplish in the schools that you are working in?

Darryl: Yeah, so So I actually work with both the the adults who work with the students and also work the students directly. For me, when working with the adults, one of the points that I really try to drive home with them is that you have a perfect opportunity to make a lasting impact. And just as mentioned, in terms of the substitute teacher, you know, how it was a one time experience. But she had maximized that that opportunity, she had to make a difference, even though it may have seemed small, and other people and most people guys, it was still a significant move that she had made. That's the same. That's the same message I relate to. And I try to instill into the the adults that listen, I don't care if you have the administrative level, Administrator level or if you're, you know, in the trenches, and you're a teacher, you're a counselor, you're a coach, you have an opportunity to be able to impact not just this life, but you're able to cause a ripple effect like that substitute teacher get in my life, she called the ripple effect. By teaching me that was four words and what that meant. I now have gone on to teach that to my children, raise them up that way. I have coached other kids you know, in doing that in sport and also in leadership. I've written books and curriculums You know, regarding that, and so it's a ripple effect that has happened. So the same thing that, that, that she did for me I tried to do for the staff or the adults, and let them know that, hey, you have a prime opportunity to make a difference. The question is, do you desire to make one, because if you do, I need you to actually take advantage of it right now. And so for the, for the adults that have taken me up on that, they've seen success, you know, if nothing else, they've had this, this renewed, I guess, this renewed spirit, if you will, about their profession, like this, I'm gonna, I'm going to take this opportunity, I have this gift that I have, I'm going to run with it. And so you've seen them, you know, go from, you know, I'm ready to throw in the towel, I'm done with this education profession. So you know what, now, I'm gonna keep going, like these kids need me, you know, you've seen that that type of posture, you know, and so I'm, I'm grateful to see that, on the flip side, with the, with the students I've seen, as we work with them, then realize, you know what, you're right, Cody, I can't, I can do difference, I can make a positive impact, because I come from similar situation like you came from. And if you can do it, you just told me, I can do it. So once they started to buy into that you started to see them carry themselves and in a more positive way, in a more, they have more confidence about themselves, they have a better pot, a better self image, you know, and that correlates to now better success in the classroom. And we've seen it, we've seen them take the state standardized test. And now they're scoring higher than they did prior to give them coaching and leadership development. So no, it's a that the biggest thing is that really helping them to see that you are a leader. You are, I think the same way you just made though, the reason why we stand on that is because we truly believe that inside of every leader is a solution to a problem. Why I pushed so hard to make sure that they see themselves as leaders, because what you got in you the world needs, it needs to come out, they need they need for that continue to come out whatever their solution is, I don't care if it's a cure for cancer, I don't care if it's just a smile, it's lighting up somebody's day, whatever it is, you have a solution, that that's the sewer problem that the world needs to come out of these. And so the quicker we can get you to acknowledge that you are a leader, and to begin to embrace them to walk in that the sooner we can start to have that be presented to you.

Laura: You just said, I want to I want to make this very plain. For our listeners, you just said that you have seen academic achievement, improve, not because you were in there tutoring the kids on math or not because you were teaching them to read in an in a more strategic way. It's because of the emotional work that you did. That is something that we think a lot about at school without suffering is the role that emotions play in learning and success in self image. And so even though we don't have state tests, for self esteem, for example, or self belief, or how well somebody can regulate their anxiety response or anything like that, these things have a significant impact on performance on what each individual is actually able to do. So when we're thinking about any of the any of the chief complaints that we might have about our education system, here in America and maybe in other parts of the world, too. We see achievement gaps or we want to call them opportunity gaps or we are not you know, this x tiny percentage of students are reading on grade level or x tiny percentage of students are performing math at the level that we're expecting them to. If we only focus on do more math practice, Read more at home. We use this this instructional model or that instructional model. There's a huge amount that we're missing in that emotionalpiece that really requires us, I think, to look at students as whole human beings, instead of just numbers. And and for most of the people that are listening to this podcast, you're thinking about your individual child's so you're not necessarily thinking about, you know, a percentage of students who is scoring a certain way or not in your state or anything like that. But you still may be thinking about, Oh, my kid needs a math tutor, or my kid needs, you know, a writing coach or something like that. And they might benefit from, from that sort of support. But do they have the emotional support that they need? First? Do they believe in themselves? Are they able to notice when their brain is lying to them? Do they have tools that they can use when they do notice their brain is lying to them? Do they have someone that they can look at, that has similar experiences to them, that is farther along in life that is in a place where they they can look up to and see that they can get there? I think that we're we don't talk enough about that. So I'm so glad that you are doing the work. You're here you're talking about it. And I think it's amazing that you can you can sit here and say, Yeah, I am a leadership coach, and I coached students on their mindset and on what they can do, and their test scores went up. 

Darryl: Yeah, that's absolutely, absolutely. And I think I think what you just said is absolutely correct, Laura, because what I found is that a lot of our students who are quote, unquote, struggling academically, if you take a closer look, just to what you said, that there's a breakdown, you know, socially emotionally, that there's a breakdown somewhere, you know, maybe it is a lack of support, maybe it's not enough development in that area, you know, or what have you. But a lot of times, especially the students I deal with, a lot of that breakdown comes from the dysfunctional families. And it comes from, you know, parents, not equipping the students, you know, with those types of skills, you know, not helping them to develop in those areas. It comes from trauma, you know, and so that's why when you look at this particular book, right here, it says Today I Win: When Tests Go Beyond the Classroom, a lot of the tests that the students are facing has nothing to do with academics. Even if you have even you think you got a really close relationship with your child, you don't, you really don't know, all the things that they're dealing with, right. And it could have been just one lived experience that they have, maybe at school, maybe it was at home, maybe that church, wherever it may be, it was somewhere where they had experienced traumatize them in a way that stopped the development in those areas, right, that hindered that. And so a lot of the test that they face, a lot of times has nothing to do with academics, but yet it shows up on the academic side. Exactly. We want to try to read react to that and say, Okay, let's get you a tutor that's gonna fix it. That that's not gonna necessarily fix it, right? It could help as you just said, but truth of the matter, we got to dig deeper and figure out, okay, where where do we really need to, to direct our attention, our focus, what areas do you really need help. And so, in my book, what I did, I wrote down seven things that really helped me to overcome it. Seven Principles laid out in that book, so I don't just talk about the childhood hardships. But I break down those seven principles that helped me and I share with you a couple of them already, but I think it's really, it's really a matter of do you want to help? That's where it starts. And if you do, how much do you want to help because you're exhaust any and all options to to make it happen, including starting with yourself if you're the parent, starting with yourself, good teacher.

Laura: Most schools are not doing the kind of work that you're doing. But some schools are some schools are bringing you in and giving you the opportunity, giving the teachers opportunity, the staff, the students this opportunity to to have this kind of breakthrough. What are the characteristics of those schools that bring you in? Who How do they know? Do they know? Or do they have a hunch or what makes those schools different? If anything?

Darryl: I think a lot of the opportunities that we've had to partner with schools have come from me being given the opportunity to speak and adapt Welcome to the students, they will see how the students would respond to me speaking, they will see how they would be attracted, you know, they want to come up, they want to ask the questions, and you can see that they're crying to have this emotional breakthrough, you know, things like that. And that would then organically leads opportunities for us to do more work long term in school. And that will give us opportunities to come in with our social emotional learning curriculum, you know, it'll give us opportunity to come in with our educational resource with the books, you know, our mentorship, leadership coaching, those different services, they'll give us opportunities for those, but it usually starts with me coming in to speak, you know, and just share, to share my experience, you know, and some of the, some of some of the effective strategies that helped me to overcome those things. And then from there, it just becomes word of mouth, you know, referrals. A, this guy, you got to check out, you know, his company, they're doing some awesome things. And that's really what it has boiled down to. But to answer your question, some of the characteristics with the schools, really, it goes back to students that are considered, quote, unquote, at risk, and I really don't like that word, I use it, because that's what people, you know, use, and I try to help them to understand what we do. But but a lot of the students are, quote, unquote, at risk that that we work with those schools that primarily have at risk students. And but they still have promises, you know, and that's the thing, they're not just at risk, they're at promise, you know, like, they have an opportunity to really do some amazing things. If we see it that way. And so these schools, they see their students have the potential to do some amazing things, we can help them get over some of these setback roadblocks.

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Laura: I want to ask about your upcoming book, at the time that we're recording this, it's not out yet. But it will be by the time you're all hearing it. So that book is learning to take the owl. And even just from the title, How to Overcome Discouragement, face adversity and become legendary in your own right. I am really intrigued. Especially coming off of a couple of conversations that I've had with students in the recent weeks, where a lot of the students we work with can become paralyzed by again, just taught, we've been talking about how our brains can lie to us, they can become really paralyzed by I feel this intense, negative feeling. I'm sitting down to do you know, my schoolwork, or I'm trying to get back to school for those who who have been avoiding school for a while. But it feels so bad. So I want to avoid it. I want to not do it. And so what we talk about is, sometimes things feel bad. Sometimes you take an O Right. Like sometimes things feel bad. As long as you know you're safe. And we can talk about how you know you're safe. But as long as you know you're safe. That doesn't mean you need to stop. Right and keep going. So we can acknowledge that things feel hard. Sometimes they even feel impossible, and we can decide to keep going anyway. And I know that you've experienced that. I know that you talk to kids about that. It seems like this book is going to speak on it. Can you give us a little preview? We'll still buy it but can you give us a little preview of what you have to say on that?

Darryl: Yeah, really take the L is a play on words. You know initially you know when you get to take the L you're thinking okay loss, take them off. All right. I mean, that sucks. I don't really want to have to take the loss but I guess I mean, I have to But but it's bigger than that, you know, it may start with a loss, and it may appear to be something that's negative. But like I alluded to earlier, anything that even with a negative situation, there's still something positive to gain from it. And so what we do, we learn to leverage the losses, you know, that we have, you know, and we've heard people say, you know, there's, there's wins, and there's, there's lessons or, you know, it'll be things like that never wins and losses. And it's kind of that, you know, it's kind of that philosophy, that your loss isn't a loss, just the absolute loss, your losses is the opportunity to learn, it's the opportunity to, to, to gain some things from that. So take the l speak to that, that that philosophy once again, and one of the things I try to encourage the reader when they're reading this book, is that if you can look at your loss in the right way, you can began to see opportunities where you can love yourself better. And if you love yourself well enough, you can lead effectively, if you lead effectively long enough, you can leave a legacy that's worth losing. Right. And so that's those that are ill that we referenced in the book. And he essentially, you know, you leave a legacy his works and looting your legendary and your own right, you know, and so that's really what, what the concept of the book is, is to teach us how to take a different look a different perspective on the losses. And then as we do that, let's start with us, began to love us. And we started to love us now we can effectively lead or influence other people, we do that long enough, we can leave a legacy this works, and be legendary. All right.

Laura: I am so excited to hear that you start with learn to love yourself. One of the things I noticed on your about page on your website is that you have the word love in all caps, a whole bunch at the top of it. And I have a working hypothesis that because our society has decided, I think, to devalue love in a profession is especially in a professional setting and won't over stop myself here. But my working hypothesis is we've we've devalued love in our professions. We've therefore devalued love in school, which is ostensibly there to set us up to have a profession and then and you know, be adults. Maybe there's a little bit of it in elementary school, but certainly by the time we're in middle and high school, there's no place for that here. And our our kids are not taught to love themselves and I think are taught in a lot of ways to not do so. And, and I think that's a root of a lot of the issues that we see in students struggling and suffering as they're coming up. So I wanted to end on this idea of love. So I am so excited did not know that you were going to read that it was part of of learning. Check that out. I would love to hear your thoughts to close out on why love matters in this work. Why it's so important and foundational.

Darryl: Yeah. I think love in a lot of ways. It helps bring bring about healing it helps bring about it helps bring Springboard fulfillment, you know what, when it comes down to it, like I think about, I have to go back to my my family, right? Something that you don't know about my wife is that she's actually disabled and sees, like say we've been married, there'll be 23 years here in a couple of months. And of those 23 years 17 of those years. She's been disabled because of a hereditary incurable disorder called spinal cerebellar ataxia. So essentially the cerebellum it's being is deteriorating. And the doctors say there's no cure for it just progressively get worse. And it's probably passed on from generation to generation. Her mom had it her uncle's had it. Now she has it to her brothers they have and this was he passed on to our kids. Well, I say that to say that. When it comes down to it, I believe my wife, you know, she is now getting to the point where she surpassing the age of her mother when my mother passed away. I truly believe the reason why she has made it this far is because the amount of love that she receives. And so when I talk about no healing, I truly believe that love is a healing agent, if you will, it helps, you know, bring about healing, you know, whether it's visibly seen, or whether it's, you know, indivisibly it still it brings about healing, you know, and so for me, I'm a huge component of love. I think the reason why I was able to make it out of the situation that I made it out of, is because I was shown love, you know, from from various people. And not only that, I began to show myself love and that you know, what, no, you're not going to be a day Sunday. You're not? No, no, we're not gonna let we're not gonna let these circumstances play tricks on my mind, like that we're not, you're bigger than that. It's not happening to you, it's happening for you. You know, and so because I love myself, enough, and I had other people in my life that love me the way they did, they helped me to heal, you know, through that through that process. You know, and and so, I believe that love does that. And it's also fulfilling. And the reason why I say it's fulfilling, there's a quote that says, a candle loses nothing by lighting another candle. I truly believe that when we love, we're lighting candles, you know, and as a result of us lighting candles, now we feel that much more fulfilled, because I just poured into that person, I see how they're beginning to take, really accept and receive that. And that makes me feel better that I was able to help someone else. And so we all when we can begin to practice that love. And it should start with self love.

Laura: Absolutely. Thank you so much, coach de for everything that you've shared here today. Like I said, it's been a huge honor to have you and I just really appreciate it. Thank you for being here.

Darryl: You're more than welcome. Thank you, Lord for the opportunity I love which you guys are doing. I think the concept is beautiful. And then just please keep doing what you do to please keep doing what you're doing. 

Laura: Well, we'll change things together. Correct?

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If you’d like to learn more about Darryl’s work, bring him into your school to work with students or staff, or order any of his books and resources, go to www.darrylwthomas.com, also linked in our show notes.

In our next episode you’ll hear from Adva Hanan, a master teacher and teacher coach who earned two bachelors and a masters degrees despite being told she’d never succeed in college. Hear what it was like for her going through school with multiple learning disabilities, what allowed her to succeed, and what success really means.